Justice For Families

[avenger]

I was just wondering after responding to a thread which summing up expressed my advice as maybe not helpful. Then I found out a MK was involved anyway.

I have no legal experience other than going through care proceedings twice and being too traumatised and ignorant of the system to know what was going on.

I see the advice given is very technical and legal and wondered if maybe this site is designed for MF's. A lot of it is beyond me and I havent the time or energy to absorb all of the information. Although I would like to learn more but its impossible without actually being in court and observing the process.

I don't want to feel I am not giving good advice and nor would I want to be on the end of impatience when someone is expecting something more.

I just would like to know who this site is aimed at. Fully experienced MK's and heavyweight intellectuals who can give detailed comprehensive advice.

I dont want to feel that I am drowned in stuff I dont understand and therefore have nothing to offer. I would rather step down and concentrate on my own family. Let the others take over.

[NRparent]

In any community, be it real (social, industrious or any other real life platform), or virtual (internet) - (apart from an imaginary platform), you are going to get a diffrence of opinion.

The saying - you cannot please everyone all of the time springs to mind.

It's more important to see another person's point of view and choose to disagree with that one point.... possibly resulting with an "agree to disagree" conclusion.

Just because you and another person can't agree on one point, it doesn't mean that you can't agree on other points in the future. One would reasonably hope that you and other members have agreed on several points in the past already.

One takes the time to think about how long you have provided answers into consideration. Any long standing active member offering an opinion or an answer several times a day over most days of the year is bound to get one reply wrong at some point..... the more you do, the more exposed you are to making a mistake. It's important to identify a problem and see if you can correct the problem and if your prepared to accept the change than it is to consider departing.

If you look at the content of this site, it's all thought provoking. I know you focus on gathering media related articles, which (and I have said in the past) I welcome because some articles get debated. The debate is good and allows other people to share their views.... and you get to read about other people's views as well.

I am sure that you will agree that no one intentionally means to mislead anyone, everyone wants to be considered as helpful. Most people draw on their own experience and content they have read, in some cases people offer an opinion. The sharing of views helps someone reading the views to get an answer.

You don't need to have legal experience to offer an answer, the interest and experience is usually sufficient. A person asking for help would find some reassurance knowing that they are talking to some people who have experienced a smiler situation.

It might offer the OP some reassurance to know that having someone monitor the public media and consolidate all the recent publications helps people like me who don't watch TV or don't read the newspapers. The media articles reassure me that the message is getting out to the general public.

The general public need to know that the secret family courts are hiding so much more than is obvious, to the point that the family courts need to be open and fully transparent.

The public need to see where the courts are failing families and how. The public should also be in a position to see which individuals are claiming to protect children and from what, when in fact the individuals claiming to protect children are actually also causing harm, in many cases disproportionate harm.

Any group is as strong as all it's members and the members being able to work together to one or a few common aims. The loss of one member weakens a group, in particular, weakens a small group more severely.

Hopefully that helps.

[Andrew]

I dont want to feel that I am drowned in stuff I dont understand and therefore have nothing to offer. I would rather step down and concentrate on my own family. Let the others take over.

You learn over time, & believe me you have some good knowledge.

I know a lot about family law since Aug 2007, however that is a drop in the ocean compared to some, but prior to 2006 I did not think that children can be removed do to psychics, yes that is right “psychics” with the title “psychologist” or “social worker”.

Just reading the forums gives people a great insight into the workings of the SS & family law, & remember even a ‘warning’ or the most basic of advice to a parent to not trust the SS or to change something, can be the difference between a placement order & the child coming home.

For instance I know of people who didn’t even know that they could change their solicitor but at the same time they were aware that the solicitor is crap (it’s the same firm in a recent court of appeal order), pretty basic stuff? Yes, but if they get some help or a nudge they stand a better chance that having an order rubber-stamped.

[johnhemming]

The MB is for anyone, but there are a lot of really good Lay Advocates in Public Family Law that happen to post and read here.

You will, therefore, find that the best advice that can be obtained to fight the system head on will be found here. It will, however, be technical.

[cavvy]

I have increasingly developed concerns about this board.
The presence of an MP gives it credibility and gives people a sense of trust.

I don't doubt that there are some excellent advocates in Public and Family Law here and the forum serves as a great reference source.

However, like any other internet forum, or campaign group, it is difficult to set standards and monitor exactly what is happening therefore vulnerable people can be quite open to misplaced trust and what I would call exploitation.

People seeking advice on here should be mindful of that.

[johnhemming]

This is a public message board and hence noone should believe that it is private.

If people have private issues they wish to discuss then they should do that with people they already know. Not on a message board.

[avenger]

It was not a criticism of anyone. It was meant as a general comment.I just wanted to debate the issues.

I find it difficult to absorb information as quickly as others due to health problems. I can be slow.


I suppose the best thing would be to put some of the information onto a usb under some kind of order. So I can reference it easier.


One thing as JH said you get information to fight the system head on.
The more I read cases like RP and what vulnerable people have to do and many under SS have not had a good education,that the poor people dont stand a chance.

If I have trouble understanding things then what chance do others have who cant read and write properly etc.
and my sol said dont thank her I did a lot of the work. This was through my own initiative as I didnt know about fassit until my case was nearly over. She said I had to be a genius to have got my complaint to LGO stage,as I think it was the only one that year.

It seems that the people that stand a chance have to have MK's helping them or be very clever themselves. Plus be confident in court.

I remember 3 months of dreadful anxiety constantly and having to take anti sickness meds before court. That is another consideration that people are intimidated by courts as well as not being articulate.

I just read all this technical stuff and having to basically outsmart the judges and ss and prepare oneself like a sol and its just a totally unfair system,as we all know.

[NRparent]

I wouldn't say it's necessary to outsmart anyone (with the exception of a LA)

Knowing some of the law and the powers available to the court is recommended , after that it's looking at the case and figuring out a good plan to present a good solid argument in the shortest space of time.

[xx_husky_xx]

I was just wondering after responding to a thread which summing up expressed my advice as maybe not helpful. Then I found out a MK was involved anyway.

I have no legal experience other than going through care proceedings twice and being too traumatised and ignorant of the system to know what was going on.

I see the advice given is very technical and legal and wondered if maybe this site is designed for MF's. A lot of it is beyond me and I havent the time or energy to absorb all of the information. Although I would like to learn more but its impossible without actually being in court and observing the process.

I don't want to feel I am not giving good advice and nor would I want to be on the end of impatience when someone is expecting something more.

I just would like to know who this site is aimed at. Fully experienced MK's and heavyweight intellectuals who can give detailed comprehensive advice.

I dont want to feel that I am drowned in stuff I dont understand and therefore have nothing to offer. I would rather step down and concentrate on my own family. Let
the others take over.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with the previous postings NR,

You do a tremendous time consuming job by posting almost every piece of relevant media article and excel at the tracking (hunting) down fact finding missions.

With hindsight I should have contacted you and asked for help with my latest piece on digging the dirt mission with Coram,
Its taken me since April 4th to obtain the data I needed to nail them... Doh!!

When you are wrapped up in helping anyone NR - you cannot help but become emotionally involved and take it to heart, feel you partly to blame for their loss, when the obvious is indeed the case.
Theyve just lied there way out of another fabricated story given under oath in a legal court of Law. It really affects you emotionally too,

I was SS's ignorant, had no dealings with them until my situation arose,
I always stress there are good SS's as I fortunatley had some of the best CPU workers.
They did the job to the best of their ability but then like so many others - then the day the antichrist female ( and I use that term lossely)
walked into my home our lives changed forever.

After almost 2 years of a perfect professional working relationship with SS's.
Within 9mths app they had me wee angel into Foster Care along with 4 others in one of thee worst parts of a certain village.

Was the law carried out correctly? NO. But I was the stupid one that still believed in our Justice that is meant to rule each and every one in this country.
I appealed - Waste of time,
I stupidly again waited paitently for my saviour to come and sort it all out. It was so transparent that she was lying, then more lies to cover up her lies, my god - its an never ending tale of bull.

And after all I was innocent party... Now I can constructively and correctly by stating - SO? - It will mean nada.

I had no knowledge of even a Childrens Act farless I was waiting in vain for Justice that didnt exist.

It was anger that taught me, when its your child whos depending on you for their health and happiness - you'll fight to the death if need be.. Pistols at dawn if you wish.
But you cant fight SS's which I struggle with. They have the biggest back up in town, in the form of the Local Constabulary.

I have read some of your postings and you know a lot NR,
Continue to advise people, I would just advise you of one thing -
Thats to ensure the correct information is passed on.
You have such a backup of people who will help you,

But please dont raise anyones hopes up be very sure.
What works for one does not equate to working for the next.

You'll always have a circle of friends at hand to guide you or to answer any difficult questions posed.

You dont have to do the representation part.

Good luck and many thanks for all your invaulable help..

xx Husky xx

[NRparent]

Continue to advise people, I would just advise you of one thing -
Thats to ensure the correct information is passed on.
You have such a backup of people who will help you,

But please dont raise anyones hopes up be very sure.
What works for one does not equate to working for the next.

Solicitors and legal representation push a parent into beiliving that the legal advice is right. A parent goes down and feels like giving up....they feel there are no options left.

A parent presenting their case needs to believe in themself and their motivation and show their reasons. Any parent presenting a case who appears half determined and less optimistic is likely so shor the Judge that they are not sure about their case and argument.

The Judge is the person that makes the decision.

No parent should give up on their children or accept lies about them. Courts are expected to find the truth. Parents should expect Justice.

Only the most determined parents have a chance of gettig seen.

It's common for Judges to tell parents that the child will realise that the parent did everything they (legally) could but the court made the decision.....that child doesn't want to grow up and read about what their parents tried to do, that child needs their parents while growing up.

A parent who isn't intrested and doesn't care won't bother. A parent who is an abuser should go to jail or be removed from the child.... not the child be removed from the parent.

The child's parents are the only people who the child can rely on. If the parents fail the child, that child can hope for extended family.

my view..... .

[xx_husky_xx]

As a mother I would hate for any assurances given knowing that its never going to happen.

Id rather be forewarned of the reality of the family courts problems
not forcefeed anyone.

Make no promises only realistic chances.

My view anyways

[avenger]

You do a tremendous time consuming job by posting almost every piece of relevant media article and excel at the tracking (hunting) down fact finding missions.

With hindsight I should have contacted you and asked for help with my latest piece on digging the dirt mission with Coram,
Its taken me since April 4th to obtain the data I needed to nail them... Doh!!

thanks very much for that. I would like to give good legal advice like MK's on here, but without going to court and experiencing the system without being a nervous wreck like when you are fighting for your child,its not possible.

I can help you with any research you need if you want in the future. Well I can do my best anyway.

I agree with the last post. JH never gives people false hope Ive heard.

Looking at it from another angle some people need a bit of hope and reassurance to maybe give them strength to carry on the fight. They need to cling onto some hope to make it through.

[cavvy]

Husky, I don't have any answers but I agree with you about false hope, even then that is a difficult area.

Using forums like this as an example, I see distressed people come on seeking help and being told ''this is your right ...''and ..'' that is your right.'' .. ''You can dispute this ''...and ...''sue that one ''.

Technically and legally those answers are correct but reality, as we all know, is a different thing. This is an unjust and corrupt system.

I know what worked for me and I now understand why it worked but at the time, there were no support groups or information around and many of the things were done in an innocent belief that it seemed sensible at the time. Not through any thought out strategy.

For me the most important thing was to get my children home, the rest could get sorted later. If that meant licking their boots, walking on coals, so be it. but I appreciate that this is not everyone's view.

[avenger]

For me the most important thing was to get my children home, the rest could get sorted later. If that meant licking their boots, walking on coals, so be it. but I appreciate that this is not everyone's view.

That was my strategy also. I had to sit while this manager talked to me like **** and put up with her bullying. this she liked cos she knew how much I loved my child and knew she had the upper hand. This type of dispicable control freak is common in SS. I was given a good telling off and ordered about. Now I know it was her who broke the law and should be held accountable.

Obviously it would not work in someone who did not love their child. They would just tell her to *** off.

They enjoy bullying anxious parents who love their children the most. It's pathetic they need to exert their power in this way.

[xx_husky_xx]

Husky, I don't have any answers but I agree with you about false hope, even then that is a difficult area.

Using forums like this as an example, I see distressed people come on seeking help and being told ''this is your right ...''and ..'' that is your right.'' .. ''You can dispute this ''...and ...''sue that one ''.

Technically and legally those answers are correct but reality, as we all know, is a different thing. This is an unjust and corrupt system.

I know what worked for me and I now understand why it worked but at the time, there were no support groups or information around and many of the things were done in an innocent belief that it seemed sensible at the time. Not through any thought out strategy.

For me the most important thing was to get my children home, the rest could get sorted later. If that meant licking their boots, walking on coals,
so be it. but I appreciate that this is not everyone's view.

Cavvy,

As posted earlier - The adult thing to do is to agree to disagree, I was raised in a large family who were encouraged to have strong views and had to adopt this stance often,
This does not mean I would cause this type situation to occur if avoidable.

There is nothing in this world that I would not do for either of my 3 children, I would also add my 2 grandkids and my little foster child who calls me mum now, and still begs to come home.
Id take a bullet for any of them and Im told often Im a overprotective mum, especially as my boys are 6'5'' and 6'4'' x lol x

People will never agree on everything and we are all entitled to our own views. My point is I always start any help that I offer by saying that I will tell you it like it is, and rather than have them blindsided by the injustice and pain that these animals can inflict,
I would have so loved someone who had been there to have told me what was likely rather than expect truth and justice in our courts.

I nether think I am right and anyone else is wrong.

It is what it is - my preferance, as yours is yours. In addition I would not knock you for any opinions

xx Husky xx