Justice For Families

Hi All

Did not get permission to appeal yesterday. L J Hughes was not interested. They knew that the order was fraudulent, but did covered up for the lower courts. L J Richards appeared more interested and his judgement was "I Agree" - all too keen for lunch.

I think that these gown clowns do not give any respect to Litigants in Person. The hearing and judgement, though was a warning to the GAL and her lawyers as it did not criticise me at all, it could have given credence to the FACT that the order was inlawful. But then I guess they would not want to criticise one of their own. GAL used a barrister from the inner circles of wig wearers - and all this from funding from my kids' representation. HOW BIZZARE.

Now, the thing is - no despondency at all. A good learning things - as L Justices said that it is best to appeal the primary order; they told me clearly that if I disagree with an order then I should appeal straightaway. The fact that I participated in the psychological assessment; the fact that i did sent my GP notes - be it they say incomplete - I showed agreement with teh principle order. So unless I was appealing that, I have no grounds.

If anyone here is subjected to psychological assessments, ask for it to be in teh way you want it; ask for records of periods you are wiling to consent to; ask for an expiry of the order - say 6 months. This way if CAFCASS or SS play up and misue, then you can appeal and hopefully 6 montsh is sufficient to expire an order so if they want more or go on fishing expeditions, then they would have to make further applications.

I am appealing the finding of fact. Hope for the best. L Justices also said if this release of medical records causes me a detriment as highlighted then I can come back to them.

In any case, maybe there needs to be some campaigning on valuing litigants in person - GAL's barrisetr with his wig and gown obviously got their attention through his paperwork and without uttering one word. This is JUDICIAL BIAS and no one can fight it.

I am going to go to the Aire Centre for help. I won't leave this matter.

Good luck Kandy. Be in touch.

[quote="janeja] Now, the thing is - no despondency at all. A good learning things - as L Justices said that it is best to appeal the primary order; they told me clearly that if I disagree with an order then I should appeal straightaway. The fact that I participated in the psychological assessment; the fact that i did sent my GP notes - be it they say incomplete - I showed agreement with teh principle order. So unless I was appealing that, I have no grounds.

If anyone here is subjected to psychological assessments, ask for it to be in teh way you want it; ask for records of periods you are wiling to consent to; ask for an expiry of the order - say 6 months. This way if CAFCASS or SS play up and misue, then you can appeal and hopefully 6 montsh is sufficient to expire an order so if they want more or go on fishing expeditions, then they would have to make further applications.[/quote]

Can you explain this in laymans please, my brain is mush at the moment but I think this info may be useful to me at the present time.

Hi

When any SW asks court to order your psych assessment, you ask:
1) There is a proper C2 application so that you are prepared with a response on why you aree or disagree;
2) Then get it via courts to set the timetable, that is agree a joint letter of istruction, agree the release of GP records - how they are released to psychologist, what dates are to be included (ask why if they ask for say when you were 4 yrs old)
3) Agree a lead solicitor
4) Agree other material to be sent to the psychologist
5) Ask that there be an expiry date of the order. The reason is that if there is o expiry date, an order is valid for 2 yrs. That is that these SW psychoss, can use that order for 2 yrs and continue to harass you for more records, more fishing expeditions on the grounds that they think there is more to your psychology than has been discovered. So ask that the order has an expiry date. It has a limited function that should be completed within a certain time, and that is it.

When agreeing mdical records, make sure you say that you will make your records available to the psyhe yourself. If they argue, let thm give reasons and if the judge writes in what the SWs want do not just gowith the flow as many of us do with the hope it will be ok. Appeal straight away.

So if psych assessment ordered without agreeing any of above, not included you in letter of instruction - appeal order.

Say you go with the flow, thinking get it over and done with - and then SW or Cafcass go back to court and say they want your records released again and you argue and like me appeal - then these Lords are saying if you did not object to psych assessment and did not object records being released, then why object its release for the umpteenth time?

This law stuff is mind boggling - they twist the truth to fit their purpose.

I have verbally declined to release any records in these proceedings to date and will continue to do so, unless it is the experts of my choice there will be no compliance whatsoever, and no assessment either, total stale mate, and appeal is where it will go although the LA are desperately trying to stop me getting it into a higher court. Why might that be?

This is interesting.

I agreed to the release of my records.

I have had 7 mental health assessments, 3 in one year.

The break down is like this.

1. Those funded by CAFCASS want me to have CBT.
2. Those not funded by CAFCASS say there is nothing wrong with me.

This year I even went for counselling After 3 sessions I was asked to leave - I'd been discharged. The counsellor said she admired me, and couldn't do what I was doing. She heard about "secret courts" on the radio and thought AH ha! I know all about SECRET COURTS.


Even been to mental hospital for assessment by a panel of experts - NHS say nothing wrong with me at this moment in time.

The mental health hospital said "I'm a woman on a mission, but that does not make me mentally ill".

The Private Psychiatrist said "stop fighting".

CAFCASS never seem to realise that the more they make people angry, the longer and more vocal people become.

loving Mama wrote:I have verbally declined to release any records in these proceedings to date and will continue to do so, unless it is the experts of my choice there will be no compliance whatsoever, and no assessment either, total stale mate, and appeal is where it will go although the LA are desperately trying to stop me getting it into a higher court. Why might that be?

I have done all of the above, and put it in writing but still they are after my medical records!

Why is so much emphasis placed on disclosure?

Is it that they hope to "label" most people?

Is this their only means of gaining "expertise" or credibility to go forward with the decision they've already made?

You see, if they chased BOTH parties with the same vengance, it could be accepted as they aimed to "get at the truth".

however normally it's only one party that is harassed this way, the party they want to remove custody from.

Now the logical question, is if they have not checked out the mental health of the OTHER party in the same depth, they could be moving the child to a worse parent. How would they know? As they've NEVER checked in the overwhelming majority of cases.

I know that they never asked or had mental health assessments on my ex, and I'm damn sure that would apply to everyone else on this forum.

So this vendetta is one side, which is evidence of bias. It's certainly not neutrality is it? Or both parties would be assessed equally at the start.

Ummh,

something else to ponder over. Why aren't BOTH parties automatically assessed at the start....in order to assure that child protection place the child with the best parent.

Hello All,


Just to let you know i was before LJ WILSON yesterday on a telephone hearing at the COA trying to prevent the order of the lower court subpenoa to my gp for them to attend court with my medical records without my consent. LJ WILSON refused permission!!

This is the law that LJ WILSON AND THE LOWER COURT ARE RELYING ON: I had no idea how to present an argument against this.

1. The position in law is summarised in Hershman & McFarlane at page 2956: ‘Medical records are documents which enjoy public interest immunity, but the immunity is qualified and is subject to any direction of the court for their disclosure. A person may be compelled by a route of subpoena duces tecum to attend court and bring records or a social work case file. The issue of such a writ is a serious matter, and requires the leave of the District Judge. When the records are produced to the court, it may then determine the question of privilege and disclosure. If problems arise over the production of medical documents, an application for production should be made to the court prior to the main hearing.

I just quoted Caldicott Principles and my consultant treating psych' wrote a letter to court quoting the confidentiality laws she is bound by, it worked a treat. Then again I did have District Recorder David Salter (Sir Mark Potters right hand man when writing practice directions)presiding over that hearing, so I got a great judge who was very reasonable. The court knows they would have hell on if the Caldicott Guardian refuses to release information, no court order unless in a homicide case would make the CG release them. I am reliably given this info from the PCT Complaints Commission. Get the backin of your healthcare team, GP, CPN, Psych, Therapist etc etc, quote Caldicott and they're sunk.

You have to keep pushing. Also use the reason that you have on-going therapeutic relationships which must NOT be compromised.

The result in my case was that the Independent Expert Psych can request any documents from my medical files he believes are relevant to him, and other parties are NOT having anything from my healthcare files released to them.

Thankfully Loving Mama i do have good support from the practice manager at my surgery and from my gp herself, the practice manager is the CALDICOTT GUARDIAN and she has told me she will not relese my records and will be getting legal backing, so i suppose i just have to see if they can fight this out now in the court!

Kandy get a copy of the Caldicott Guidelines and request your GP to write a letter to the court stating confidentiality laws they are bound by, put a copy of them in the statement from ther GP, they also need to state in the letter that they do not have any child protection concerns. File the letter and copies of the confidentiality laws into court ready for the next hearing. I always file on the morning, but filing a day in advance will be ok. No more though as it would give the other parties opportunity to counter argue. Catch them unawares and they don't have a hope in hell.

Keep in mind (and sometimes you need to remind other parties) that they have to show that you have something wrong with you and they need your medical records to put the "wrong" into perspective, rather than they make an accusation or have a "need" to see your records and you be expected to show the records to proove your inocence.

Solicitors often try to claim that by not giving your medical records, that you have something to hide. It's a tactic.

The records are confidential between you and your GP. You choose who you share your confidential info with. A Judge can over ride you if there is an overiding intrest to protect the public. A Judge has to determin that overiding intrest before he can make the order.

In LJ Wilson's judgement towards the end he says something along the lines that i must have something to hide for behaving as i do! So Nrparent they are using this tatic with me. I have nothing to hide and if they get their hands on my records they will be sorely disapointed. Lol

a little late for Janeja but If a Court has requested medical notes for a case in order to pass onto a psychologist then the medical notes can be given only to the noted expert, no third party intervention should occur, in a nut shell your GP should send the notes to the appointed expert. you have to be extra careful the notes don't go into the hands of the GAL and their sols, you can request to a Judge that the medical notes are not disclosed into the proceedings and more so a letter form your GP can also be used in place of disclosing medial notes.

Also one other thing to bear in mind is the medical notes can only be used for reference purposes and at no point must they be documented in any assessment or statement, if this does happen then you would have to contact the GP or the author of the notes as this is a confidentiallity issue.

NRP, a Judge cannot override a patients confidentiallity, this can only happen under the mental health act, more so a Judge cannot force anyone to undertake a psych assessment as again this is forcing someone to have a medical examination, the mental health acts come in again, but if the MHA is not quoted then a line should be drawn under the issues.

You are right about the danger to the public but this does not include disclosing medical notes, only assessments can be forced onto someone if there is the chance the person could be a danger to themselves or the general public, anything else or other excuses is just nonsense.

You should always be aware that when psychs are appointed it normally shows the lack of evidence the authorities have, and as such they are appointed in almost every case, many, many times it is this when parents fail and the L.A get what they want, why give them more ammunition to their already fully loaded guns.

Loving Mama, in all respect to the caldicot guidelines, when do these people ever follow the guidelines, more so you should also look up the Gaoubert test, this test is used to validate any assessment to be used in a court of Law.